Eric Wing  00:00

The longer you’re in business, the lot the longer you have like the more exposed you are to situations where accounts for one reason or another, you know, we we sort of finally call them the breakup. You know, those breakups feel differently depending on the situation. You know, maybe not too dissimilar to relation, like, like romantic relationship breakups or Friendship Breakups. There, we’re finding that there’s sort of tears to that. And, you know, on our end, we have a we have two types. We have the the marketing client breakup, which feels different, because that’s a recurring revenue stream for us. And so no, you know, now that revenue stream is gone and and then the other side is the web development breakup, which we, we didn’t really experience until just recently. That’s the because, you know, when web, web, website projects that you start it, you finish it, maybe there’s a maintenance program or security upkeep or something down the road. But for the most part, those are kind of like transactional projects for us, and to have one, and the way it did was sort of send shock waves through the, you know, through the company a little bit. So yeah, I guess, before I get to in the into the depths of it, you know, how is this something that, you know, something that you thought about your on your side, or, you know, how does, how does the quote, unquote, break up look in the podcast, video world,

Douglas Duvall  01:59

yeah. I mean, so in the podcast side, I’ve been on both sides of it, right where I’m I’m the new, you know, significant other, yeah, and then on the flip side, we’re the ones being broken up with, and they’re going to someone else where, like you said, the podcasts are generally recurring income. So it can be a kind of shift, what the outlook for the year court, whatever looks like and and then on the video side, generally speaking, it’s not where it relates closer to the web development with you. It’s there are a fair amount of one and dones. And it’s not like, Okay, you got what you needed, we got what we needed, and we’re moving on and but sometimes there are sort of, you know, recurring clients where we want to break up with them, or they want to break up with us, and then it can feel a little, you know, a little awkward and different, different emotions, depending on what it is. And then sometimes there’s those ones where you’re like, they kind of, they break up with you first, but you’re kind of thinking about stepping away like something wasn’t right, you know, one way or the other, whoever leaves first, but both parties agreed it just wasn’t a fit, right? Yep,

Eric Wing  03:20

yep. It’s striking, hearing your side of it matching it up against what we’ve been what I’ve been thinking about it is, you know, breakup is a breakup, whether it’s in business or it’s not in business. I think, I think it’s human nature to have a bond, develop a connection, or some sort of, you know, expectation is set around the parameters of the relationship. And I think, I think it transcends personal and business. I think there’s probably, there’s probably in my, in my case, in the way I look at it, it’s probably less impactful emotionally speaking, when, when a breakup happens on the business side, because what fires is more of a survival mechanism from keeping the business alive standpoint, like, oh, okay, We can’t have too many of these happen, right? You know. So it’s, it seems to be more monetary on the business, breakup, reputation, ego, like those things are in there too. And so what I was thinking that we could talk about today is sort of, what does a, what does a graceful breakup. Look like, you know, on this, on the receiving and also the the the exit. You brought a good point about the even. On the even the new even the new significant other. You know, it’s interesting. We also, especially on. In fact, primarily on the marketing, on the marketing side, sometimes on the hosting side, little projects here and there, but mostly on the marketing side, where the where the new you know, where the new love, if you will, and we come in, and that’s always been very natural for us, for me, very, very respectful of the situation and really just trying to be helpful. Be be quick, right? Be concise. Because you know, you know what it feels like on on their end to be receiving these emails and phone calls and things about the transition. It’s just like, you can’t just, it’s hard to just tear the band aid off. It’s like, oh, sorry, we actually need this other thing, or the client’s trying to do it. And it’s like, you know, it can never be over quick enough.

Douglas Duvall  05:57

Yeah, it comes to mind. So it’s a podcast where, you know, we were the new, you know, person and the old, the breakup with the my the still client to this day, one of my best and the other company he was working with for his podcast. The breakup was ugly, evidently, and this individual had tied a lot of the website side of things and account side of things to his personal accounts. So, like, when I’m like, Hey, can I just get access to these things, he’s like, I can’t give you access. That’s my personal Yeah, like it was, it was very from the get go, like, super defensive and contentious. And I get it. I have been on the other side of it. I try not to put anyone in a position that I wouldn’t want to be put in. But I think he himself. I mean, as this person themselves had to admit, like he they’d made some mistakes tying it to their personal Yeah, accounts. And once, the first month was, you know, less than ideal and awkward and but once we got through it, you know, it was fine. And I don’t know if they’ve buried the hatchet since, but it was definitely this stressful time, yeah, like, I remember being like, I have to call him right now and ask him to get in on this thing, and I can’t post, yeah, the podcast. And then, you know, he’d never answer my call. He’d always call me back, like, a half hour later. And not to say, like, of course, this person’s busy, they got other things, but, like, it felt intentional at some point, like, but once we got through it, it was fine.

Eric Wing  07:52

It’s hard, yeah, I mean, it’s like, you know, it’s like, you date, you date someone for five years, and then you break up, and then you have their their new boyfriend, reaching out and asking for for things that only you can give

Douglas Duvall  08:10

them, the keys to their apartment. Yeah,

Eric Wing  08:14

exactly. It’s yeah, the keys to the apartment, or, you know, whatever you know, and it’s, yeah, it’s super awkward. It’s opportunities for us all to practice being adults, I think. But yeah, on our side, we have a similar situation where we were the receiving party and the the outgoing vendor. They you know, they, they went so far. I have, like, the theme I have in my head about them is like, sore loser, and that’s fine, like, that’s they’re going to feel the way that they’re going to feel, but they wouldn’t deal with us. They’d only deal with the client, which was fine, but essentially the client was just copy and pasting my email to the over to the outgoing vendor. The poor clients get stuck in the middle, right? They’re like, listen, I made this decision, but now I’m here ping ponging between the vendors, and I always try to avoid that as much as possible. But the outgoing vendor, they went so far as to, you know, jeopardize the website. They, they, I think I brought this up in a different podcast, but they, they deleted something like 47 pages off of the website, and they were all the pages that were directly aligned to the company’s SEO efforts. So they were all the pages that were ranked, and this outgoing vendor knew that, and and they were all there on their initial transfer, and then they were all gone. It’s. Had, like, the next day, somehow they still had access. And, you know, we rebuilt them. We didn’t cause a stink, you know. And things are fine, but it’s like, it’s really, really, I think, for from a sociology, sociology standpoint, it would be fascinating to do a study around, around how human behavior, you know, is within these situations. Because I was seeing some of his emails, and he was saying things like, We’ve never lost a client. We don’t have protocols for this. We’ve never lost a client before, which I call, you know, I call bluff on that, like, come on. They’ve been in business almost as long as us. And then, then he was saying things like, make sure you have everything transferred and away from us by the end of the month, because we’re already talking with one of your competitors.

Douglas Duvall  10:55

Okay? And

Eric Wing  10:57

you know, like, it’s like, Why do you even need to say that? You don’t need to say that. That’s ego, that’s pride, that’s, you know, and it’s just unfortunate. But I think when, when we’re on the receiving end, just just doing it with grace, I think, but also on the exiting and also trying to find that grace, as hard as it is our current situation, we built a website, finished it. Have all of this documentation of approvals. The finished product is, we’re just waiting for final approvals by the the Board of Directors, the trustees of this of this foundation, Family Foundation, and they they went, they went blank. They went they went black, completely quiet for two months, 60 days or something. And actually, I forgotten about the project because I had followed up a couple times, and nothing came from it, and they canceled it. They don’t want the website, and no good explanation, just we showed it to the trustees. Trustees trustees don’t like it. We’re not going, you know, it’s done, and it was really something you know, because you think that you’ve delivered a product according to the expectations of the client, but come to find out, they were not communicating to the people that actually make the decisions right? And most likely within the mix of all of this, there was a realization of that fact. But it’s easy to just kind of put blame on the vendor that’s already been fired than it is to say, Oh, we probably should have done some things differently internally, right? They even the same people that decided they didn’t like the website, got a preview of it, and they also approved it before us moving into, you know, further steps of the design process. So it was really confusing and really disheartening on how it was handled on their end. But then the the new vendor reached out, and they needed all the stuff, right? They needed access to all the content that we collected and all of the things that we had worked with the client on. And it was like it was brutal, you know, did it? Did it with grace, did it with, you know, being polite and actually provided more than what they asked for. Was just thinking through what else might they want, what else might they find helpful? And I will say what like as hard as it is to go through that process, it was I felt good about myself and sort of my me representing the company with the fact that, like, it was handled without putting up a stink or being like that other example I had mentioned, right? But it’s like, you know, we go back to our very first episode with creative context. You know, we talked about kickoff meetings and setting expectations and all this other stuff, and I did all those things. And you just never know, right? You just, you just never know. I think now though, I will say when we’re working with, when we’re working we’re working with the day to day decision makers that have overarching decision makers, there has to be something that pierces that veil, like we have to get through to the ultimate business, the ultimate decision makers, right? That was made. The only thing I can take from this experience is like, is that, because it was, it was quite a blind side,

Douglas Duvall  14:38

yeah. Well, knowing you and how organized you are, like, there’s no way you would have gotten to, like, final revision process without having them approve things, check boxes off all along the way. So, yeah, yeah, that’s, that’s, that’s a heartbreaker.

Eric Wing  14:58

Yeah. And. Too bad, because they’re a long time client too. So not only, not only did that, that project, blow up, but we, at the same time, lost, you know, a client that we we we do all their work with like we do. We have like, a quarterly plan in place to maintain their website in the system on, like, stats and things like that, and so just like, from one point of like, oh, the website’s done, ready to launch, to everything blowing up. It’s just like, man, you just never know.

Douglas Duvall  15:31

Yeah, it does. And I don’t know if you know this, but it does make me wonder, is there, was there, like, a new person on the board? Or, like, did someone retire and someone get put on the like, fresh blood to the board or something. Maybe

Eric Wing  15:46

could be it’s a family. So it’s, yeah, that’s

Douglas Duvall  15:51

outside perspective. I have no idea. But like, it feels like somebody came to the table that has, that’s, you know, worked with another vendor at another spot or something, and you were, it was easy to throw you under the bus.

Eric Wing  16:04

Yeah, could be, I think there’s, there’s, maybe there’s a reason for the way that the information, you know, it was just a random email one day with the changes and no real explanation. You know, they did leave the door open, like, if you want to schedule time to talk about this weekend, but you know, you know, at that point you’re not going to be changing anyone’s mind. You know, yeah, it’s more out of curiosity, but that’s painful to to put the client in that situation who most likely was also vetoed, right, like, my direct point of contact, she was the one that approved everything. And so, yeah, it’s just, you know, I guess, to bring this around to being relevant for, for what this pod, what like, what we, what we come on to talk about here is, you know, from the, if there’s a, if there’s someone out there listening who’s considering hiring a creative professional like these are some of the things that you know you should be thinking about as part of that journey. It’s not it’s you’re not buying a video production service. You’re not buying a web development or marketing service, like you’re buying a partnership, essentially, like you’re entering into a partnership that’s not dissimilar to the colleagues that you work with at your job, right? And, and so, yeah, so I guess, yeah, I guess I’ll leave it there, but yeah, it’s just the you just never know,

Douglas Duvall  17:45

yeah, yeah, no, it’s good on you for handling it the way you did. Because the toughest thing, or at least what I’ve been communicated, is the toughest thing about web development is like wrangling up the content and getting the copy and, like, getting that part of it is almost the most difficult thing, and then for them to just kind of have all that handed to them, then they can just kind of fly, right? Yeah, the new cup, the new vendor, yeah, so that, that one that hurts, you

Eric Wing  18:21

know, there’s, you can get really philosophical about it. I’ll spare everybody that right now, but I think, I think the one thing I can say is, like, when, you know, we now have, we now have that hole in our schedule, right? That hole will be filled with something else, like, you know, it’s like, ultimately, it’s fine, and it’s just, it’s just the shock, the shock value of it, I think, when you’re going one way and decide in like, you’re told that you’re going The wrong way. But yeah, I guess, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Douglas Duvall  19:04

Our most recent we had two. We had two breakups this summer. One was initiated by us, and it just wasn’t a fit. And the analogy I used was the I just don’t think the client liked the work we did for another client. And at the end of the day, what we do for someone else isn’t gonna be what we do for you, because you’re unique. What you do is unique. It it’s like how it’s like houses, like there’s no two houses, even if they’re the same drawings and they’re built next door to each other, like, each house is going to be totally built different. Like, it’s all it’s different people, like, so my comparison is like, look, some people like Toyota, some people like Honda. Yes, and it feels like you like Toyota and we’re Honda or whatever, vice versa. And they just, they didn’t like the fact that we were breaking, you know, like essentially saying thanks, but no thanks, right? And that was hard to deal with, because they sort of just pretended like that conversation didn’t happen, and kept trying to, like, just trying to get on your schedule for this. Then I was like, No, you know, I think you want something else, and it’s not us, yeah. And then the flip side, we lost a different podcast. Their scope was growing and growing and growing and what they wanted, they were very demanding. And, you know, we had to up our prices to compensate for that demand. And you know, most of the summer had gone by with that like, hey, in September, this is what the price is going to be. You know, I can’t continue to be at this number when you’re looking for all these things. And then three days before September 1, I get a call from him, which wasn’t unexpected, to get random calls from this person, and he’s like, Yeah, I’m going back to the person I was using before. You know, he’s in my neighborhood. I see him at the grocery store, and you know, it’s just going to be more cost effective as well. And that, I have to admit, it wasn’t like out of left field. It’s not in like, in your case, like, it’s definitely a mutual thing. Like, I sat up at night thinking, like, I should just walk away from this because it’s not working. Like I like the person I like the individual, I think he likes me. It’s just from a business perspective, we didn’t align. Just two different mentalities that didn’t mesh, yeah, but it’s still it’s still hurt, because it’s still the even without upping the price, it was still a fair amount of money that came in regularly, you know, and was consistent work. And, you know, I think they’re doing well. I think there’s nothing, no ill will. Similar to you, we went as far to make loom, loom tutorials about everything we were doing, wow, because the thing, because, when we took over for the person that ended up taking the podcast back, a lot of stuff had changed, so we literally handed them everything. Like, wow, walk through everything we did differently and even, like, even like, creative thought process and why we choose clips and things like that. So there’s, there’s nothing that I could look back and say, I I didn’t do anybody dirty. I didn’t I wasn’t a sore loser. We handed everything over and more, way more than I was obligated to do. And my Paul, my employee, was obligated to do, because he made a lot of those looms. So we went above and beyond, and then we could sleep constantly. You know, you could sleep at night knowing we didn’t screw anybody over. You know, they decided to go a different way. And there’s nothing really bad they can say about us in the process, or at least in my mind. And if they do, that’s on them.

Eric Wing  23:21

Yeah. You know, I’m curious, do you at motif? Do you guys do like, you need a certain number of days of notice when someone comes to cancel?

Douglas Duvall  23:32

So we didn’t. So I think in some point we will, especially with podcasts, like 60 days, because that’s really what it takes to do it a smooth transition, right? So I told you, the transition started, right, right? Basically, day one of September. Yeah, nothing was it, excuse me, it wasn’t completely moved over to Halloween. So two months so we, I think going forward, you know, there’s going to be some sort of transition with a podcast, like 60 days. And if it’s, if it’s less than that, then I don’t know there’s some sort of Exit, Exit fee or something, because it takes two months, really.

Eric Wing  24:23

Over those two months, were you still collecting revenue from them, or had they stopped? No, yeah,

Douglas Duvall  24:28

and that’s the thing, because basically, the first week, it’s still like, You’re the first I’m sorry, the first month, yes, because the we had to finish out September, yeah, I didn’t move up the new rate, which I should have done, I honored the old price.

Eric Wing  24:45

Yeah, that’s tricky, because that would have been more confrontation, yeah? Oh, for sure.

Douglas Duvall  24:51

So we kept the our side of things going for another month, and then once it’s in their hands, it’s like the. Questions, right? We tried to give them everything and more. There wasn’t a ton of questions, but things still came up, emails about where this is, where that is. So there were three episodes, three episodes coming out a week for this client. One of them, yeah, one of them was in Spanish, so I had to hire an editor that spoke Spanish. Wow. And like, I made, you know, $0 off of that, because he charged, what I charged, right? Wow. And I was doing admin on top of it, like I went above and beyond for this client, yeah. And then when push came to shove, you know, we’re here. We’re here, not working for them anymore. But, yeah, I think there definitely needs to be some sort of, some sort of cancelation, yeah,

Eric Wing  25:50

something, some sort of period. Do you ever go and after the transition has happened? Do you ever go and check out the work of the new What the hell the new vendor is doing. I

Douglas Duvall  26:01

did, like, a month around Chris, around Christmas, you know, you know, a little time off, I kind of checked in. I don’t know, just curiosity, I guess. I don’t

Eric Wing  26:16

know if I’m strong enough for that I have. It’s hard to see on the marketing side, because you just don’t know what the strategy like, what they’re trying to accomplish. I mean, you might have an idea from when you were doing like when we were doing it, but on the web dev side, I can’t think of the last time that I did that. Although it’s not common that we I think it’s more common that we lose touch with a client and they forget like that we were to not we were an option to redesign their site, and they hire someone else, and then we come upon it later. That’s probably more common, but yeah, it’s, yeah, I guess it’s similar to, like, seeing your ex walking down the street with her new boyfriend, right? Like, do you really want to see that? I mean, you kind of, you’re curious, because you’re like, okay, is he? Was he, like, and all this other stuff, but like, at the same time, you’re okay with not knowing at the same time, right?

27:10

Yeah, for sure, yeah, yeah.

Eric Wing  27:14

Just going back to the we on the marketing service side, we asked for 30 days, and I generally put that in writing, and it’s in the contract like so we know that when we are put on notice, we’ll collect, generally speaking, we’ll collect one more payment from them, and that covers, you know, kind of like turning off the machine, you know, giving account access and sending over final reports And and things like that. And for the most part, we’ve not had any pushback on the 30 days. I think most people, most people understand that. To your point, though, there are times when I think 60 days would be more realistic, but we do lose that last month. We generally don’t. It’s not a profitable month for us, but it’s not like we’re going backwards a big time. You know, it just, just covers the cost of because then it’s like, more people working on the account, because there’s like, get all this stuff transferred over and as quickly, and, you know, as professionally as possible, it’s just more hours, more payroll hours going into it. So yeah, but yeah, yeah. I think the other side too, with web dev, there’s generally one final payment that happens upon website launch, and so that’s always a little bit at risk. In fact, I’ve started to structure our contracts where the first payment is the largest payment, the second payment is the second largest payment, the third payment is the smallest. For that very reason, and we’ve not met any resistance on that at all. That’s if there’s three payments, generally. I mean, depending on the size of the project. It could be two, could be four, but the idea is the first payment is the largest one. It’s just a cover basis. So, you know, just the things that we learned taking these bumps over the years, right?

Douglas Duvall  29:13

And you’re going through it. And I just kind of went back to the headspace I was in, because I was talking about hiring somebody right at that time, and then I had to go and call that person, be like, Hey, I can’t hire you right now. And the person I still work with on a contract basis, but he’s like, No, I just appreciate you being honest. Like, I just, you know, lost in a lost in a big account, I can’t, I guess,

Eric Wing  29:36

as humans, working with humans, you just never know what’s going to happen? As careful as you you try to be Now, with all this being said, we’ve screwed up like, we have screwed up on website projects. We’ve screwed up on marketing services, like, I’ve screwed up as a consultant, as an advisor, like, we’ve screwed up all over the place over the years, right? And I think that’s just human nature, and we. And there’s a certain allowance, or very like forgiveness, of that. I think today we talked about some of the situations that were just, you know, especially prominent in our mind. But there, you know, there are times when, yeah, we’ve, we’ve, we’ve wanted to break up with a client, and there have been other times where it’s mutual and there, there have been times when we deserve it honestly, on the marketing side, for one reason or another, things went sideways, or the campaign didn’t perform like it’s natural, I think for that to happen, however, in order for our businesses to stand the test of time, I think we have to learn from those. And I like to think that with each turn of a calendar, each reflection point like we’re talking about today, we do get a little bit we dial it in a little bit more, right? And I think that’s one of the differences between a successful company and one that that might struggle is the we talked about, I had, I called out the pride of the the vendor that lost an account to us, you know, but there’s, there’s pride prevalent, and on both sides, you know, up and down, it’s a lot. I speak to people frequently who who stand by their systems. Nope, clients, wrong. Nope, just the way we do it. Dope. They just don’t they don’t know what they’re doing that. No, this is the way we do it. If you don’t like it, then go find work with someone else. You know that might work for some firms, but that’s just not really my personality. I think my personality is more like multiple more flexible, trying to try and accommodate. And I see that in you as well. And you know, it’d be interesting study. Maybe someone’s already done it, you know, the personality of the prime decision maker at a company, and how that flows through to the quality of that company, right? Yeah, it’d be an interesting study to look at. My

Douglas Duvall  32:00

final thoughts on it is, you kind of prefaced it at the beginning too. It’s like when you go into work with a creative professional, look at it like you’re going into in a relationship. Is this someone I can have a phone conversation with and not be stressed out about calling them? Could I sit and have a coffee with them and not want to leave, you know, or whatever. Like, yeah, have that pit in your stomach, have that framework around it, like it, it is a relationship. Do you want to be a part of?

Eric Wing  32:36

I know it’s we always go into the we always go into these new contracts with, like, you know, lollipops and rainbows, you know. And it’s, it’s similar with a new romantic partner, or even a new, yeah, like, romantic partner is a good example, because, like, you have that, like, that initial honeymoon phase when you’re, you’re just just so Gaga, and, like, the rest of the world doesn’t exist, and what that there’s there is part of that in a new contract as well, like, oh, the revenue stream grew a little bit. We’re on target for the month. We got a new, interesting project that we’re excited about. The client seems really cool, but you fast forward a few months, and the things of things have calmed down a little bit rubber. Rubber has met the road. Are we delivering on what we said we’re going to and how are they feeling about it? It just it doesn’t matter so much how it begins. It’s how it was nurtured along the way. So for sure, yeah, any

Douglas Duvall  33:37

I forgot to bring this up last week. Is there any content? Audio books, movies, anything cool.

Eric Wing  33:46

I watched Inception again over the weekend, and it’s still awesome, but I think I was more impressed the first time I watched it. I don’t know why, but I’ve picked up a I’m rereading a book by this author called Dr Joe Dispenza. He wrote becoming supernatural, and covers a lot of topics, but essentially, it’s the connection mind body connection, and it’s quite fascinating. In fact, a lot of what I’ve been reading about could be applied to our conversation today, actually sort of affecting the energy of a meeting before you go to the meeting, that type of stuff. So what about you?

Douglas Duvall  34:35

Let’s see, I just bought a new audio book. I haven’t even started it, but I heard he was I do tune in to the Joe Rogan podcast every now and again. Yep, me too, depending, depending on who the guest is. Let me see if I can find it. But this particular Thomas Kim Campbell,

Eric Wing  34:57

Oh, Tom, oh yeah. Wait, do. Was Thomas Campbell, yeah. So you get so the virtual reality, yeah,

Douglas Duvall  35:05

my big toe. I just, I just, I just downloaded it. No way

Eric Wing  35:09

we have to talk about this. I’ve been studying Tom’s work for the last we were in 2025, so like six years I’ve been Wow. This is the first time I’ve met anybody who has even heard of Tom Campbell, and here you are reading his book. Well, he

Douglas Duvall  35:26

I’d never heard of him. He was on the, I think last week or two weeks ago, he’s on the find that. And I had no idea who he was. It just sounded like an interesting episode. So I tuned in, and, yeah, 10 minutes into the podcast, I’m like, I’m downloading this book. Oh,

Eric Wing  35:47

it’s a hard book. I will tell you I have all three of them in the book. Two is on my coffee table right now, and it’s dense, man, but it is, is going to, if you stick with it, is going to change the way that you see the world, in your in yourself, in it. In fact, the book I’m reading that I just told you about is it’s kind of circling around the same topics, but I can’t wait to talk to you more about all this stuff. So there’s Tom Campbell. There’s another guy, Bruce Lipton, if you want to check him out, they run into similar circles, but Bruce is more the biology side of what Tom talks about, but cool, nice little discover here at the end of the podcast

Douglas Duvall  36:28

today. Yeah, I’m interested to get deeper, bro.

Eric Wing  36:32

Yeah, I’m I’m pumped to maybe have someone to talk to about it. I I’ve been all alone on this journey for a long time, so I was

Douglas Duvall  36:39

just shocked. I’d never heard of him till then, but glad to have found him. Yeah. So Instagram, you know, we’re gonna start posting some, some of the clips from this show. Creative context, underscore, yep, that’s the handle, yep. And, of course, Apple podcast Spotify. Wherever you download podcasts and YouTube, you can find a creative context. I am Doug Duvall. I run a video production and podcast production company here in South Boston called motif media. And my co host,

Eric Wing  37:22

yeah, Eric Wing, I’m the owner of Darby digital, located in Cambridge, and we really run the spectrum of technical services, web development, digital marketing, AI consulting. There are three main buckets that we’re in.

Douglas Duvall  37:40

And maybe next week. This week, well, two weeks ago now in this post, but deep seek sent shock waves through the tech world, and I think we need to allow some time for the initial wave to settle, and then maybe we’ll just share our initial thoughts on it. Not that I’m an expert. I know you’re a little deeper in it than me, but it is certainly a an interesting revelation.

Eric Wing  38:10

Yeah, yeah. We could, yeah. We could talk about AI every day for an hour and not really even scratch, yeah, it’s just every day there’s, there’s a great podcast. I think it’s like the five minute AI download or something like that. It’s every day, the guy talks about the updates from the previous day. And it’s like, the guy can do it every single day. That’s a lot of content. So yeah, so next time I look forward to that,

Douglas Duvall  38:36

all right, see you guys next week.